congratulations
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway
the outbreak of the deadly Ebola
epidemic has cut a sway through West
Africa but now that it's reached West
Texas it's really made the power sit up
and take notice with a big conference in
London this week
it's no great Mischief if they fall in
Sierra Leone or Liberia at least not
unless there's a prophet in it the U.S
first responds to the epidemic in Africa
was their default position sending the
Army by contrast Cuba's response was
their default position send in the
doctors joining us now to discuss the
phenomena of Cuban medical diplomacy
which has restored Sight and Sound to
those without it all over the world and
is now waiting fearlessly into the Ebola
pandemic is Bernard Regan of Britain's
Finest solidarity campaign the campaign
for Cuba Bernard it is a phenomenal
thing
the Cuba in many respects a poor country
a third world country
is actually responsible for medical
diplomacy that has cured hundreds of
thousands of people around the world of
blindness deafness
it's
an internationalist weapon that Cuba is
deploying here it's it's absolutely
amazing George in fact if you look back
over the 55 years since the Cuban
Revolution happened and overthrew the
dictator fulgencio Batista they have
treated an estimated 85 million people
across the globe and currently this year
there was me underestimating it's
phenomenal and this year alone they have
something like 50 000 medics in the
field in 155 countries so there are very
few countries in the world that haven't
sometimes benefited from Cuba's medical
action and as you said in the
introduction
um they are now responding to the crisis
in West Africa so they make that makes
them more having more doctors in the
world than the World Health Organization
that's true the the number of doctors as
I've said for example going to Sierra
Leone is 165 in the first instance but
the plan is to send an additional 300
and as you alluded to in the
introduction to the program uh the
United States response was to send 3 000
soldiers and 62 clinicians quite
different this must represent a huge
investment uh by Cuba 50 000 doctors
despair whilst here in our own country
were short of doctors yes I mean this is
an important point because
um Cuba in the country itself has a
ratio of one doctor per 210 people
and we in Britain have a ratio of 1 to
370.
and notwithstanding that they're still
able to provide the medical support and
this isn't a one-off
um they responded to a number of crises
that have happened over the years
earthquake in uh in Kashmir and Pakistan
absolutely they've been uh yeah
everywhere since
um they've established uh Henry Brigade
which is a Detachment of medical
Detachment particularly established to
respond to crisis situations so they
were in fact prepared to go to the
United States of America when Hurricane
Katrina hit New Orleans but the Americas
never replied to their offer which is
interesting because I think the
important thing about Cuba is that it is
prepared to offer help unconditionally
it doesn't say who are you do you like
us do you support us it says this is a
human catastrophe it needs an actual
practical response and they go and do it
the example you cited Kashmir in fact
when the Cubans went they had no
political or diplomatic relations with
Pakistan but they made that absolutely
secondary they say said our job is to go
and to help people and they sent two and
a half thousand Medics who went into
areas of the country that even the
government found difficulty in reaching
treating something like 70 percent of
the victims of the earthquake more than
a million people were were killed or
injured during that and they treated
seventy percent of them and they left
behind and this is an important thing
it's not just the response to the
immediate crisis but the Legacy a very
practical Legacy not just the emblematic
that they actually left behind 32 field
hospitals that people could continue to
use and also they established relations
with Pakistan so that young people from
Pakistan went to Cuba to train as
doctors as part of an ongoing program
and that's been the case in Africa and
in Latin America and even for some poor
students from the United States who
couldn't afford to go to medical schools
in the U.S have been offered places to
train us doctors in Cuba and then to
return well that's a very interesting I
didn't know that uh but uh I did watch
uh uh Michael Moore's film sickle about
the different medical systems that they
have in the world and uh he took people
who were firefighters who had been
damaged in 9 11 rescuing people who
couldn't get medical treatment because
they didn't have insurance in the United
States or not enough insurance he took
them to Cuba where they were treated
entirely for free and I never forgot the
picture of bewilderment on the face of
the American patients when they were
looking around for someone to pay and
asking how much is this going to cost
and the Cubans faces were equally
bewildered what do you mean cost
health doesn't cost anything in Cuba so
here we have a small country
which is achieved phenomenal levels of
Health Care in its own country now
exporting around the world the benefits
of that Healthcare this is socialism in
action I think it's interesting just to
think of the facts that when we talk
about these statistics in relation to
Cuba if Britain were to apply a similar
process we would be talking about
multiplying those figures six times the
population of Cuba is only 11 million we
have 66 million in Britain if you think
of the number of doctors and the
resources that could be put in the field
just by Britain alone let's leave aside
France Germany and all the other
countries in the world you could see a
fantastic transformation in the life and
well-being of people particularly in
countries like Africa and I think in
continents like African I think an
important thing is that whereas we have
seen for example in the British Health
Service doctors being brought from
Africa and other countries to work here
Cuba is doing the reverse it's going to
those countries and also is providing
the infrastructure to begin to build the
health services within those countries
by training the doctors who will then
return home and that's an incredible
Legacy to leave behind something of real
value and it contrasts if you like with
way in which Western Europe America and
many other countries take doctors away
from much needed areas Cuba is on the
other hand going there and helping and
putting something back so in just 55
years leaving aside because people would
have different views on it leaving aside
the achievements inside Cuba itself in
55 years on the international scene
uh Cuba has played a decisive role in
the defeat of apartheid South Africa
which was recognized by Mandela the
first country he visited after his
release was of course as you know South
Africa and this uh medical uh diplomacy
which is actually even more staggeringly
uh generous than I had imagined
you must be very proud to be one of the
leaders of solidarity campaign with such
a country well I think Humboldt is the
word I think not proud I mean I I think
it is staggering I think there is there
is not a comparable uh response by any
other country in the world it it shows I
think
um a legacy the Cubans often express it
in this way they say solidarity is not
giving what you have left over but it's
sharing what you have and I think that I
think that is really the Hallmark of the
way in which they've done this and
although you know I re acknowledge that
you use the word medical diplomacy I
think it's something more than that I
think it's human solidarity of which
this is an important part we could talk
about literacy and about their
contribution and education which is
equal well equally phenomenal they've uh
you know they've contributed to the
eradication of illiteracy in countries
like Venezuela and Bolivia in throughout
Latin America they've initiated reading
programs which have been utilized in in
more so-called Advanced countries like
Spain and New Zealand and I think they
see this as very much the development of
the whole person that health and
education are fundamental to people
having to be able to live creative and
uh positive lives well you can see why
the U.S hates them uh because of this
contrast that you have drawn because
Cuba is an example that you don't have
have to see the price of everything and
the value of nothing that it's possible
for values to supersede price
is there any sign of U.S hostility to
Cuba diminishing
I think
my honest answers sadly no perhaps
verbally it's less aggressive maybe less
ostentatious in its animosity towards
Cuba
for example it's a long time since the
actual invasion of the Bay of Pigs in
1961 and there haven't been any direct
military sets although there is their
countenance and give cover to people who
are carrying out terrorist acts against
Cuba but the reality is that the United
States is continuing to impose a severe
and Savage blockade against Cuba it
means that the Cuban economy over the
last 50 years has lost something like
one trillion dollars and it's not a rich
country which is impacted it means that
when for example they want to buy
medicine they have to go looking
elsewhere because many of the
pharmaceutical companies are U.S
companies and won't trade with Cuba so
they have to look elsewhere that adds to
the costs of transportation and this is
you know I give you a lot of examples of
that and it more recently what seems to
have been happening is that the United
States has been imposing very heavy
fines on banks like HSBC and other banks
in Europe here and third countries for
trading with Cuba and of course that
means that those banks are reluctant or
hesitant and of course all of this all
the time is pushing up the cost of Cuba
and so on well if the political
diplomacy between the U.S and Cuba is
not progressing how about the medical
diplomacy when they meet on the field
for example us has sent all their their
troops to help
in in the Ebola affected area in West
Africa and it's a specific
tricky Mission yeah because it's a big
epidemic and
medical workers have been attacked and
even killed you're right and I think
that is going to be interesting at the
moment they're operating in different
countries so that's not an immediate
issue the United States is principally
focusing on Liberia Cuba is based in
Sierra Leone but as George said at the
beginning of the program there is a
conference taking place this week or has
taken place this week which is
coordinating or attempting to coordinate
the response in West Africa and uh
banking among the general secretary of
the United Nations called five countries
uh immediately to seek their support one
of which was Cuba the others with the
United States and uh and Great Britain
and the Great Britain will have to oh
because it is operating in Sierra Leone
also we'll be looking to cooperate uh
hopefully we will see that breaking down
any kind of barriers and we want to see
that happening not just in relation to
Britain where it needs to develop much
more but also in relation to Europe as a
whole and that is something which is
taking place slowly but it's beginning
battle dragon of the Cuba solidarity
campaign thanks for coming on board
thank you Sputnik
after the break the best of our foreign
correspondents by far Intrepid and
fearless prodigious and eloquent he's
Patrick Coburn of the independent and
he's up next
welcome back to Sputnik Patrick Corbin
is foreign correspondent of the year and
every year for me he's just written the
book on the phenomenon known as Isis on
which the entire world is now fixated
and I'm glad to say he's on board the
Sputnik terrific new book
absolutely timely uh what's the truth
about Isis who are they what are they
and what's the prospects of defeating
them
well an Afghan journalist once described
movements like this as being holy
fascists he then had to leave
Afghanistan fairly quickly but I think
that sort of sums them up they come out
of al-Qaeda in Iraq that uh
has existed since the invasion
of 2003
they've always been extremely uh
anti-share incredibly violent
the ideology is not that different from
wahhabism in fact if you take out
YouTube and uh and videos their methods
are strikingly similar to those used by
Abdul wahab the founder of wahhabism in
conquering uh Saudi Arabia conquering
Mecca in fact Mecca surrendered to him
this ostentatious use of Terror it's not
necessarily because they are sick
individuals that they are performing
these hideous acts of terrado they may
be it's for the discouragement of the
others to force surrender isn't it yes
it's ritual murders I think what they
have added which is new is that they put
this online it's on you know YouTube
these hideous it's basically snuff
movies a very professionally made in
which you see them taking Shia Lorry
drivers
out of there lorries uh there's a brief
questioning to make sure their religious
affiliation and then they're just taken
beside the road and shot in the head
and this is the same thing happens to
maybe Iraqi soldier is going to join
their units and this has an Express
purpose which is to terrify people and
it sort of works that's one of the
reasons that the Iraqi Army broke up in
mosul when Isis took mosul on the 10th
of June now the tribes of Western Iraq
as you identified uh cited eventually
with the American British occupation
drove these people out
when they were called Al-Qaeda but they
have flourished again as a result of
ground which has been fertilized by
British and American policy in Syria the
encouragement of the Revolt as you put
in Syria the funding of it and the
provision of non-lethal militar Aid and
so on these are the conditions that have
brought this organization back to life
and my goodness back to death
yeah I know it's well put I think that I
mean a point I make in the book and I
think it's very important is that
Isis comes out of War it's difficult to
conceive of organizations like this
coming out of any Peaceable situation so
the continuation of the war in Syria
basically demanding that it can no
negotiations except with Assad going
although Assad controls 13 out of 14
provincial capitals so he obviously
isn't going to go is basically a recipe
for the war going on and it's in the
conditions of war that Isis has grown up
again and flourished and taken over an
area which is bigger than the size of
Great Britain
and yet
there are only twenty thousand of them
according to the New York Times is that
an underestimated figure but even if it
is
there must be a level
uh in a territory that size of
quiescence by the tribes for example who
drove them out once before could drive
them out again but are not
I'm arguing that they are a kind of an
expression of our manifestation of an
allergic reaction among sunnis in Iraq
to the kind of policy politics and
structure that we imposed on Iraq after
the invasion in 2003.
their reaction against Malachi uh noriel
Maliki the prime minister
of course one can say why was noriel
Maliki the prime minister of Iraq from
2006 because it's uh he was appointed by
the United States ambassador
um I think it's true of all countries
that are invaded from the outside then
their leadership are appointed from the
outside not by the indigenous population
this is a recipe for disaster and in
Iraq there has been a disaster you had
this regime which is really a
kleptocracy uh stealing from everybody a
hundred billion dollars a year in oil
revenues but no water no electricity for
much of the country bad for sure bad for
Kurds but even worse for sunny because
they were discriminated against they
were persecuted if you were a Sunni
young man in The Villages outside
Fallujah you've got a very good chance
of being arrested tortured forced to
confess and you could end up on death
row and there are villagers with few
young men left
and you can be on death row for a crime
that somebody else has already been
executed for but it doesn't do you any
good so you can imagine what it's like
for these young men you know that Isis
may be violent but at least it's
something it's better than sitting here
in your village waiting to be arrested
and tortured
what's the prognosis Patrick you've been
there down amongst it all
I argued in Parliament uh last week
that this rather desultory bombing by
British and American jets is not only
not going to solve this problem but may
very well exacerbate it
yes because it's going to create more
war
you know you could say if you bomb The
Columns of Isis on the road to our bill
that may deter people but then this is
basically a gorilla Force so it doesn't
make itself available for bombing but it
means that the war will get worse and
it's in these conditions that Isis
flourishes its leadership is very
experienced
extremely violent but they know about
fighting and they survive bombing before
I mean there's an absurdity about the
present bombing as a way of
extinguishing Isis but what happened in
2000 and seven when the Americans had
150 000 troops there the British had
several thousand troops they were
bombing all the time but this group
which was much smaller then in the shape
of al-Qaeda survived and is still with
us today
so why should it work this time even if
they succeeded the United States and
Britain are openly saying that once
we've defeated Isis we're going to build
a an army of of moderate extremists and
point them towards Baghdad and ask them
to march
yes I mean I mean there are two sort of
elements of fantasy in this one is that
the Iraqi Army is going to March into
mosul and other places and restore Law
and Order now the people of mosul may be
terrified the Sunni people the
Christians and the yazidis and the
others have had to flee or been already
been killed but the Sunni may not like
them but they're even more terrified of
the Iraqi Army and the militias coming
with them
um I mean I have friends in mosul who
emailed me and these are these twin
Terrors it's the same in Syria so
um the idea that the sheer this the
moderates
the third Force which needs to be
straight out of Graham green The Quiet
American uh it doesn't really exist
um and this poor old third forced which
is yet to be vitted vetted and sent to a
Saudi Arabia to be trained is then going
to fight not just Isis but is going to
find the Syrian Army of Assad so this is
the stuff of fantasy I mean this group
doesn't exist uh described them in
Parliament last week as imaginary armies
yeah all these groups are imaginary
armies as is I think it's my last
question that we've got time for the
so-called Arab participation in this
it's a touch imaginary too isn't it
there's no Prospect at all of the United
Arab Emirates sending boots onto the
ground in Iraq or Syria neither Saudi
Arabia
no I I don't think so but I think that
there's a reason for getting them on
board because
previously and really pretty well up to
the present moment they were the covert
supporters of the Jihadi movement in
Syria and in Iraq they provided money uh
they may not like Isis much much at the
moment because it's but it's kind of a
Frankenstein monster that they uh
created uh so I think the reason the
Americans were so Keen to have them is
although publicly they said these guys
are with us it's to make sure they
weren't with the other side I think
that's the real agenda well it's it
simply couldn't be better timed your new
book The jihadi's Return by Patrick
Coburn and or books I really encourage
everyone watching this to get themselves
a copy it's a handbook that everyone
who's seeking to understand these
matters it needs to have with them
Patrick Coburn thanks for joining us
thank you Sputnik foreign
to tell us what you think through the
portals of social media what's rattling
Gayatri well why is it that we don't
know about this Cuban medical workers
these doctors surgeons working all over
the world and healing people Saladin
returns answers that because no enemy of
the US can ever do any good cubers are
probably planning to overthrow U.S from
other countries at the moment even I
didn't know the scale of this medical
solidarity that Cuba's involved in on
Isis Jane Limer says that Isis may be
defeated but as shown before when you
remove one layer of an ideology like a
Russian door another is revealed and
basharat Ali makes the point that how is
that before the vote from last week or
for war we are under imminent threat to
our very lives and then it all goes
quiet
quite in a sense that it's not as
imminent anymore
look we are under threat from these
people uh there are hundreds of British
citizens fighting with these Fanatics
and one day they'll all come back here
unless they're killed before that when
they come back here all dressed up
nowhere to go except looking for ways to
harm us but they are not an army it's
not a conventional war and therefore the
methods of conventional War for
countering it are entirely inappropriate
and that's all that we have for this
week which sadly means that's the end of
the show will you please keep in touch
with us on RT underscore Sputnik and for
Facebook like us on Sputnik on Russia
today it's goodbye for me Gayatri and
from me George Galloway it's been
marvelous
oh